Chapter 5
Two lawyers and a preacher have another interesting discussion of the way
eternal security
folks dispose of Ananias and Sapphira, Judas Iscariot and other noted apostates.
Several weeks had elapsed since the last visit of young Attorney Sinceer to the Nazarene
pastor's study. The morning that this chapter opens, the good doctor was busy preparing a sermon
for his next Sunday's congregation, when his telephone rang. Clapping the receiver to his ear, the
pastor said:
"Hello, this is Rev. Arminius talking."
"Yes, Doctor," was the answer, "this is your lawyer friend, James Sinceer, I surely . have
another eternal security `nut' for you to crack. Did you hear Dr. Calvin's broadcast this morning?"
"No," answered the pastor, "I am sorry I missed that. What did he say that was new this
time?"
"Well, he certainly did present a new departure -- new, at least, to me. He declared with
emphasis that old King Saul, who visited a witch and then committed suicide, was not lost. He
said he expected to meet him in heaven. He also mentioned Ananias and Sapphira, who lied
against the Holy Ghost and were stricken dead. They are, he said, safe in glory, and walking the
blissful streets of gold. Also, to my utter amazement, he stated that Judas Iscariot, the betrayer of
our Lord, who committed suicide, was happily reposing on cushions of glory, a saved soul. He
declared that all of these, and thousands of other apostates, just so they had once known the Lord,
had thus received the gift of eternal life, and possessed a `positional salvation' in Christ all the
time, despite their sins and apostasy. He emphasized the fact that once received, this 'positional
salvation' could never be lost, no matter what one did. It was, of course, something of a repetition
of 'once a son, always a son.'
"How are you situated for time, this morning, Doctor? If I came up to your study, could you
give me the 'once over' on this Judas Iscariot matter? I am sure you can answer Dr. Calvin's
statement, but I am eager to hear you do it. And, listen, would you object if I brought my law
partner with me? He's a gruff old chap, but quite a theologian. He was reared a Calvinist and
thinks he knows all about it. I have been repeating your arguments to him, but he doesn't seem to be
as convinced as I think he ought to be. We are both at leisure today, and he is willing to come.
Shall I bring him with me?"
"Certainly," heartily replied the doctor, "bring him along. The more the merrier! If our
position cannot stand the most scrutinizing questioning and inquiry, then there is something wrong
with it. I will look for you at once."
The two lawyers stepped into the study. They handed their hats to the courteous pastor, and
took seats. The partner, whom James Sinceer had brought with him, was a middle-aged man, with
gray in his hair. He was shrewd-featured and keen-eyed, with a deep furrowed frown that brought
his heavy eye-brows together in the middle.
"This is my partner, Doctor Arminius, William Hardhead," genially spoke the young
attorney. "He was born in Missouri, he tells me, and says that he has to be `shown' before he can
part with any convictions that he has held." Lawyer Hardhead rose to his feet and he and Doctor
Arminius warmly shook hands.
"Well, gentlemen," said the pastor, "just where do you want to begin? I understand from my
talk with Mr. Sinceer over the phone that the question of the fate of King Saul, Ananias and
Sapphira, and Judas Iscariot was being discussed in a broadcast this morning by Dr. Calvin. Do
you want my views and convictions on these cases?"
The men nodded their heads. "That will give us something to start on," declared Lawyer
Hardhead, in a deep, rumbling voice.
"Suppose," said the doctor, "that for the sake of argument, we admit the truth of Dr.
Calvin's contention. Mind you, we do not believe it to be true, and are fully convinced that we can
disprove it; but sometimes the best disproof can be demonstrated by imagining, for the sake of the
argument, that the statement is true.
"We will imagine then, that King Saul, because he once was accepted of God, and
accorded salvation through faith in the Messiah to come, was granted a 'positional salvation' that
was non-forfeitable, regardless of his subsequent lapse into sin. Please note, now, what that sin
consisted of."
The doctor paused, reached for his Bible, and then turned toward his visitors. "Brother
Hardhead," he inquired of the elderly lawyer, "will you not turn to the Book of i Samuel, and read
us some of the statements there?"
The lawyer demurred, saying that he was not as familiar with the Bible as his partner,
Sinceer, was. "Anyhow," he grumbled in his gruff tones, "it will sound better if you read it
yourself."
The pastor turned to the place indicated, and then continued.
"The king's offenses were numerous, and the account of them is scattered through several
chapters. Consequently, it may be better if I sum them up, without reading the references. First,
there was hatred and envy toward young David. Then there was a plain disobedience to a frank
command of God in connection with the destruction of the Amalekites. True, he seemed to exhibit a
species of repentance soon after this, but it was more because he was caught than because he was
sincerely seeking forgiveness. There is no record in the Book that he received any forgiveness
from God. Then he was guilty of murderous thoughts and efforts toward David, and, after a while,
of actual murder of the priests of Nob. Then his decline was rapid. He lost all communication with
God, became deeply sullen and hateful. When the Philistines' army came against him, he was in
despair. He consulted a witch which was another violation of the law of God, and finally on the
morrow as the battle turned against him, with his last remaining effort he murdered himself.
"Now, according to the non-forfeitable 'positional salvation' of the eternal security folks,
King Saul is ushered into heaven, to live forever with a holy God, and to partake forever of holy
songs, hallowed ceremonies, and sacred services, in the presence and under the eye of the
eternally glorious God, with his own soul all befouled and black with hatred, envy, deliberate
disobedience, murder, and suicide."
"But, my dear Doctor," grumbled Lawyer Hardhead, "would his soul not be changed in the
twinkling of an eye as he entered eternity, and thus be fitted for the sanctities of heaven?"
The pastor smiled into the frowning countenance of the grizzled attorney. "Can you find any
scripture to warrant such a transformation?" he answered. "The clear, plain teaching of Holy Writ
is that death ends our probation here below. After death there is only an acceleration of the soul in
the same moral and spiritual direction in which it was going when it left earth's scenes. There is no
change that reverses character after death, so the Bible teaches. Even the Roman Catholics had to
invent a purgatory in order to accomplish the very thing for which you are contending. And for the
existence of purgatory there is not a shred of reliable Scripture. 'As death leaves us,' so the old
religious adage runs, `so shall the judgment find us.' 'As a tree falleth so it shall lie.'
Lawyer Hardhead's shrewd features were working almost spasmodically as the doctor
continued his line of discussion. Finally he broke in:
"But are we not to understand that sin is in the flesh, and that however much we commit
offenses against God, they do not affect the soul? In other words, are not my many sins lodged
wholly in this body, but my soul retains the eternal life which Christ bestowed upon me when I
was born again? When, therefore, I die, does not my freed, purified soul step out of this polluted,
sinful body, and enter heaven?"
The lawyer's face flushed, and his listeners could see that he was tremendously stirred by
the discussion.
The doctor slowly shook his head while he thoughtfully leafed his Bible. At length he
smiled at his deeply interested listener, and said:
"My dear brother, there is no moral content to the physical body. It cannot think, it cannot
will, it cannot plan. It has no conscious being. It is not a moral agent. The body, taken by itself, is
utterly impersonal. True, it can be used as an instrument of righteousness or of sin, but in and of
itself, it cannot be either sinful or righteous, It is the human spirit that thinks, plans, wills, and
determines. It is the spirit, or as we usually term it the soul, which is the real human being. It is the
free moral agent. Your soul can sin, but your body cannot. When therefore one dies, he, that is, his
conscious soul goes straight to the judgment, and if he has been a sinner, it carries its sins, crimes,
and offenses with it.
"Paul settles that in Rom. 6:16: 'Know ye not that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to
obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto
righteousness.'
"Here the human spirit, or soul is clearly set forth as the conscious, moral agent, choosing
either to serve sin, or to serve righteousness. "
"Now," urged the pastor, "I submit to you, who are accustomed to handling presumptive
and probable evidence, is there anything in the whole Bible through that would warrant us
claiming that God would approve of the presence in heaven, before His very eyes, in the circles of
the sanctified, of sin, of hatred, of malice, of disobedience, of murder? If these are permitted there,
heaven itself will be spoiled. Indeed, their presence will turn it into a species of hell. Was not the
Archangel Lucifer evicted when sin was found in him? The truly saved and cleansed people on
earth will not be at home in heaven, if they find there souls that are as hateful, as reeking with sin's
slime, as murderous as the many they left behind on earth. God could not endure such a situation,
and the genuine saints could not endure such a situation, and consequently it is contrary to the
eternal fitness of divine and holy things and therefore cannot be true. It is false. It is a trick of the
adversary to propagate such an untruth as that a man living in sin and dying in sin can have a
`positional salvation' that entitles him to heaven. No salvation position in Christ can be possessed
by a free moral agent unless that agent constantly fulfills the conditions that obtained such a
position. The Scripture clearly delineates those conditions -- it says -- 'If we walk in the light.' To
be comfortable in heaven, to be at home there, one must be as much like God as redeemed and
cleansed men and women can be.
"Why, my dear sir, you can yourself see that if an apostate like King Saul could possess a
'positional salvation' that took him to heaven despite his total unfitness for that holy place, then
Satan himself could possess such a non-forfeitable 'positional' relation with God as to possess
heaven, instead of being flung, as the Scriptures declare, bound in chains, into the fire that shall
torment him forever. For Satan is no worse than King Saul, except that he is a greater character and
has been for a longer time a wicked offender and hater of God. He was once an angel of light, and
consequently had a salvation relation to God. Did he retain that when he sinned? The Bible
distinctly says he did not! Will he be taken to heaven when the final collapse of his kingdom takes
place? We are frankly informed to the contrary. Let us read it."
He turned to Revelation 20:10, and asked Lawyer Hardhead to read. The attorney with
much shuffling about, took out his glasses, perched them on his nose, and then read in a deep,
grumbling voice:
"'And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the
beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.'"
"There," exclaimed the pastor, with a shade of thrill in his voice, "is the fate of the first and
greatest apostate. And all other apostates and sinners, who have retained their free moral
responsibility, will share a similar fate."
"But," gruffly cried Lawyer Hardhead, "I have been given to understand that angels and
devils are a different order of being from humans, and that they are not eligible for salvation. The
atonement of Jesus Christ was not planned for them, nor are they included in any of its benefits. Is
this not true?"
"Possibly it is, and probably it isn't," answered Dr. Arminius. "At all events, we have no
Scripture to prove that the atonement does not include the angels. They are required to worship
him, for in Hebrews it states:
"'When he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, and let all the angels of
God worship him.'
"If He demands their worship, who knows that the salvation of those who 'kept not their
first estate,' is not also included in His atonement. In the last analysis, whether angels and devils
are under the atonement or not, if God is just and equitable, then He is bound to save Satan in
heaven despite his awful apostasy, if He takes the apostate Saul in, with his soul all weltering in
sin."
"Well," doggedly grumbled Lawyer Hardhead, "King Saul was under the old dispensation,
and so perhaps was not under the atonement of Christ, what have you to say of the New Testament
offenders?"
"God is God," declared the doctor, "whether in the Old Testament or in the New. His
conditions for salvation are always the same. The ancients were saved by faith in a Messiah to
come. His atonement was represented by the sacrifices every pious Hebrew was required to offer.
We are saved through the Messiah who has come. His offering of Himself on the cross took the
place of the ancient sacrifices, and is our atonement. The apostate from the Old Testament
requirements `died without mercy, under two or three witnesses, Of how much sorer punishment
suppose ye shall he be thought worthy who hath trampled under foot the Son of God and counted
the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto
the Spirit of grace?' Here we see that apostates in both Old and New were lost.
"Take the historical case of Judas Iscariot, the betrayer of our Lord, He was guilty of
avarice, theft, hatred, treason against his Lord, which amounted to murder, and he also committed
murder upon his own body. He literally hurled his own soul, reeking with sin, into the face of an
offended God. If the 'positional salvation' of the eternal security people be true, then there he is, in
the presence of God, forever, but still reeking with avarice, still unforgiven of his theft, still
up-cleansed of hatred, still guilty of his Lord's death, and still polluted with the murder of his own
body. There is no hint in all Scripture that there is a hope of any change after death for him. He is
forever a wicked, devilish -- for it says that 'Satan entered him,' -- hate-filled murderer in a holy
heaven. This is simply unthinkable. It is absurd, not to say blasphemous.
"There is also a passage in Acts that at least infers that Judas did not go to heaven, despite
the 'positional salvation' claims for him of the eternal security people. Brother Sinceer, turn to
Acts 1:25, and read for us."
The young man quickly found the reference. He read in his effective way: "'That he might
take part of this ministry, and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go
to his own place.'"
"Note that expression," said the doctor, "'that he might go to his own place.' Where is
Judas' place? It certainly is unthinkable that it should be a holy heaven in the presence of a holy
God, living forever in companionship with the Lord he hated, betrayed and murdered. Such a
teaching is a pet theological view gone mad.
"Turn again to John 17:12. Permit your partner, Brother Hardhead, to read this passage."
Lawyer Hardhead again adjusted his spectacles, and gruffly read: "'While I was with them
in the world, I kept them in thy name; those that thou gavest me, I have kept, and none of them is
lost but the son of perdition.'"
"Note that," exclaimed the doctor, "our Lord distinctly states that Judas was a 'son of
perdition,' and that he was lost. That ought to settle it."
"Possibly," grumbled Lawyer Hardhead, "Judas was not saved at all, and in that event he
did not have any 'positional salvation' to forfeit."
"If that be so," replied the pastor, "the expression, 'was lost,' would be senseless. But there
is other evidence that he was soundly converted, and regenerated. Read Luke 9:1, 2 and 6."
The younger lawyer found the place for his partner, and placed the Bible in his hands, with
his finger indicating the place. Clearing his throat, the older man grumbled the passage forth.
"'Then he called his twelve disciples together --"
"You notice," interrupted the pastor, "that they were all twelve present, which includes
Judas. Please read on."
The lawyer continued, "'and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure
diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. . . . Anal they
departed and went through the towns, preaching and healing everywhere.'"
"Here we have Judas," declared the doctor, "chosen as a disciple, endued with power and
authority over all devils, and diseases, and also commissioned to preach the gospel of the
kingdom. He was not only chosen, endued and commissioned, but it states that he went and did all
these things. There can be no manner of doubt in the face of this scripture, that Judas was saved,"
cried the aroused pastor, in a ringing voice. And then, dropping his voice almost to a whisper, he
sadly added, "Nor that he was lost and damned in hell. No sonship, no 'positional salvation,' no
election, no place in grace, no secure place in the hand of God, could save him in the day that he
deliberately sinned. His seeming repentance in Matthew 27:3, was not genuine enough to bring
forgiveness, and he was hurled into eternity by his own hand, a hopeless apostate! For any
religious teacher to deny that he was saved is to reflect upon the veracity and the wisdom of the
Cord Jesus Christ, and the statements of the New Testament. For any religious teacher to say that
despite his sin and apostasy, he was taken to heaven because of his `positional salvation' is merely
to publish his own theological insanity!
"The arguments in the case of Judas, are paralleled in the instance of Ananias and
Sapphira. These people, the New Testament clearly infers, were saved and numbered with the
believers. Then it also clearly states that they 'lied to God.' Peter frankly charged them both with
'lying to the Holy Ghost.' So offensive was this to God, that He, himself smote them. To teach, then,
that these offensively sinful souls still weltering in their falsehoods went straight to the God to
whom they had lied, and who had Himself smitten them for their sins, and were given a place there
with Him forever -- eternal liars living with the God of eternal truth -- eternal liars living with the
Holy Ghost, against whom they had lied -- eternal liars dwelling with Jesus the glorified Christ, is
little short of madness. To this absurd, preposterous, blasphemous extreme are the eternal security
folks forced to go, in order to maintain their contentions."
The doctor ceased speaking. The young attorney was nodding his head with vigorous
approval, even saying "Yes, yes," quite out loud. Not so with Lawyer Hardhead. He sprang to his
feet, gruffly grumbling, and began looking for his hat. "I never admit a point in law," he growled,
"and I shall not give up the good old teachings of my fathers in religion, just because the evidence
seems to be against me. I'm not Bible student enough to answer you, but I refuse to be argued out of
my position."
He was on his way to the door, and had his hand on the knob, when young Sinceer called
and said, "Wait, Hardhead, the doctor and I always have a word of prayer when we have finished
a discussion of these things. You are a church member, stay and lead us in prayer."
With a snort Lawyer Hardhead jerked the door open and sprang down the steps. In a
moment he was out of sight. The other two men looked meaningfully into one another's eyes,
smiled a moment, and then laughed outright.
"We can pray without him," the young man said. Together they knelt, and after a hearty
prayer by the pastor, the young attorney thanked God for the illumination that had been poured upon
his path. He offered praise to God that He had faithful ministers who knew the truth and who could
express it.
With a warm handclasp, and with many expressions of gratitude on the part of the young
man to the older one, they separated.
